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 >> Formal CBMART COnference edited Transcript

    February 28, 1987 -- Saturday Night
    10:00 PM to  Midnight  EST
    Award Winning Author Orson Scott Card

    The two highest awards given to science fiction authors are the "Hugo" and
the "Nebula."  Orson Scott Card won both in 1986 for his novel "Ender's Game."
His other novels include "A Planet Called Treason," "Songmaster," "Hart's
Hope," "The Worthing Chronicle," and the sequel to "Ender's Game," "Speaker
For The Dead."  His stories have been published in OMNI, Analog, Fantasy &
Science Fiction, and Isaac Asimov's Magazine.

    Although Card uses his computers primarily for word processing, he is no
stranger to programming (Commodore, Atari, and IBM).  Several years ago, he
was the Book Editor at COMPUTE! Publications.  More recently, he wrote a
column about programming games for Ahoy! Magazine.  He has very definite and
sometimes controversial opinions about what makes a computer game "good."

    Jake Lund, Sysop will be Moderator for this COnference.
------------------------------------------------------------------

And so begins this Formal CBMART COnference with Orson Scott Card.

7:06:44 PM PST Saturday, February 28, 1987

(18,Jake (moderator) Quiet everyone...
 We'll begin tonight's conference with Orson Scott Card.
 Scott won both the Hugo and Nebula awards last year for Ender's Game.
 Scott, would you like to say anything before we begin? ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Just that Ender's Game was in part the result of my work
 on games programming.
 I finished writing it right after leaving Compute! Books, and still had
 my ideas on what computers ought to be used for fresh in mind.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) I'd like to welcome any visitors from the LitForum, Writers
 and Editors Sig, and SciFi Sig.itors sig, and scifi sig.
 If anyone has questions, type a ?.  For comments, type !  Anyone?
 Any questions?  ga

(18,Dale Miller) ?

(18,Orson Scott Card) This may be very brief.

(18,Jake (moderator) ga Dale

(18,Dale Miller) Hi, I just read "eye for an eye" in Asimov and I was
 wondering if you'd done any research and/or had any experience with
 psychic healing.

(18,Orson Scott Card) No.  I'm not a believer, alas.
 I didn't think of this primarily as a "psychic" event.
 In the story EYE FOR EYE, I was really exploring the problem of guilt
 for things you might have done before you realized they were wrong.
 I don't do much real research.  Psi powers are the kind of field where
 you can make up whatever you want, in sf.  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) ?

(18,Dale Miller) !

(18,Jake (moderator) Dale, do you want a follow-up?  Dale, ga.  Then Cheryl.

(18,Dale Miller) Will there be a sequel?

(18,Orson Scott Card) To EYE FOR EYE?

(18,Dale Miller) Yes.  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Nope.  None planned.

(18,cheryl peterson) [being patient]

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl. ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Oh, Cheryl, patience IS your best quality.

(18,cheryl peterson) thanks Scott. How do you feel about being nominated for
 another Nebula?

(18,Orson Scott Card) Naturally, it feels nice.
 Especially because SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD was the "real" novel -- I wrote
 Ender's Game merely to set up SPEAKER.  Not that I didn't try to do a
 good job with ENDER.  It's just that the ambitious project was SPEAKER.
 So it's nice that some members liked it well enough for it to be on the
 final ballot.  I'm not greedy, though.  All the books nominated are good,
 and I especially like THE JOURNAL OF NICHOLAS THE AMERICAN, by Leigh Kennedy
 which is incredibly good, especially considering it's her first novel.
 I wish MY first novel had been half so good.  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) Is there a sequel planned? I wish I were an SFWA member so I could vote.

(18,Orson Scott Card) A sequel to SPEAKER?  Yes.  There will be a third volume.
 But I have no idea when.

(18,cheryl peterson) I'll have to get a copy of her book.

(18,Orson Scott Card) I do know some things about the story, however, which
 sometime will appear.  ga

Job   User ID   Nod Ch Tlk Handle
--- ----------- --- -- --- ------------
 12 76703,3051  QAM 18     Jake (moderator
 41 76120,2424  ELP 18     david craig
113 70007,2406  MIA 18     cheryl peterson
116 76703,4037  SEA 18     Buffer Betty
162 70007,2376  SLC 18     Orson Scott Card
163 76526,711   BUT 18     Figgy Ray
170 72507,1534  BOL 18     Dale Miller
172 73177,3065  VCR 18     Greg Goss
182 71777,2556  CAN 18     LONNIE SMITH
183 76703,4244  DLQ 18     plain old steve

(18,Jake (moderator) No questions pending.

(18,plain old steve) ?

(18,LONNIE SMITH) ?

(18,cheryl peterson) ?

(18,Orson Scott Card) Well, I'll just babble for a second.

(18,Jake (moderator) Steve, then Lonnie and Cheryl.

(18,Jake (moderator) ga SS

(18,cheryl peterson) Scott, you never babble.

(18,Orson Scott Card) (There will never be a HERETICS OF ENDER or CHAPTERHOUSE ENDER, however).  ga

(18,steve) Thanks.  This seems to fit at this point, is it possible for you
 to share with us a bit about how you approach the writing of your novels.
 For one, where do you, or for that matter, where does anyone who writes
 fiction, come up with all these ideas, how do you go about formulating your
 stories?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Ideas are easy.  I do sessions at SF conventions called
 "A Thousand Ideas In an Hour," at which the audience and I come up with many
 GOOD story ideas.
 Some of them have resulted in novels.  The trick isn't coming up with an
 idea.  The trick is really CARING about the idea and knowing how to structure
 it into a novel or story.
 I don't know if we really want the five-hour novel writing course here,
 but I think a few basic hints help.
 When you have one story idea, you still don't have a story.  It takes a SECOND
 idea, completely unrelated to the first; the two, combined, transform each
 other into something fresh and surprising.  It gives them depth.
 You also must have a character in pain.  A basic formula (though it doesn't
 always apply), is to choose as your protagonist the character who is in
 the most pain -- without dying.
 (Dead characters rarely make interesting protagonists, outside of hell, of
 course.)
 As to structure, I'm writing a BOOK on that, and I really couldn't do any
 justice to the subject informally here tonight.  ga

(18,Dale Miller) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) Steve, follow-up?

(18,steve) Thanks.  No follow-up, Jake. ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Lonnie, ga.  Then Cheryl and Dale.

(18,LONNIE SMITH) you've said before that you don't like to give narrative
 descriptions so we were wondering what buggers really look like.  For instance,
 what kind of insects do they really look like, bees,wasps,or ants? ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) In fact, it's truly nonsense science to think of them
 being actually insectlike in body structure -- I can't imagine an exoskeleton
 supporting a creature of any size.  But in my own imagination, for what it's
 worth, I see them as ants.
 In fact, though, when I'm intellectualizing about them, I don't see them
 as truly insectlike at all.  That is, they would be vertebrates, with a
 semipermeable skin like ours, and what made them look "buglike."  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Lonnie, a follow-up question?

(18,LONNIE SMITH) thanks.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, your turn.

(18,Jake (moderator) ?

(18,cheryl peterson) Are you planning to attend Brighton Worldcon? Any other cons scheduled?

(18,Orson Scott Card) I wish I could go to Brighton, but I just can't get away.
 It's too far, and I'll be starting a semester as guest professor/visiting
 writer at Appalachian State University in mid-August.  No way I could get to
 England.  Which is particularly frustrating for an old Anglophile like me.
 I've NEVER been there.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, follow-up?

(18,cheryl peterson) Want to go over and accept your Nebula if you win?? (grin)
ga, next

(18,Jake (moderator) Dale's next, then me.

(18,Orson Scott Card) They won't be giving Nebulas at WorldCon.

(18,cheryl peterson) oops, that's right. those are hugos.

(18,Dale Miller) I was wondering if you ever come to Boskone in Boston.  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) I'd love to, but the state of my finances requires that
 EXCEPT for WorldCon and local conventions, I only go to conventions that
 invite me and pay my way.
 Maybe if I sell a million copies of something I can afford to go to conventions
 just because they sound fun and because I like the city -- and I DO like
 Boston.  ga

(18,Greg Goss) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) My question is next, but really it's from my brother
 to whom I relinquish the keyboard.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Sure, that's what they all say when they have a nasty question.

(18,Buffer Betty) smile

(18,Orson Scott Card) I WAS smiling.

(18,Jake (moderator) Do you think it's a better idea to structure the storyline
 so that it's easy for the reader to understand and read, or do you think it's
 better to follow the Zelaznian style of startling readers?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) I don't think that those are the two choices.
 I think the first obligation of the storyteller is to tell a clear story.
 If the events are not clear to the reader at the most superficial level,
 then it doesn't matter how complex and beautiful and brilliant your story
 is at any other level.  As to Zelazny startling readers, I think you
 may be referring to his penchant of letting things seem normal, and then
 springing on you the fact that things are actually very weird.  This is
 just a technique for narrative hook.  The place where Zelazny, in recent
 years, has had problems is in the area of ENDINGS, not clarity.  Everything's
 very clear.  Then the story just stops.
 But in the most recent stories --
 24 Views of Mt. Fuji,by Hokusai (Hugo last year) and Permafrost (in Omni
 this year) he actually has endings.  So the stories feel complete.
 I believe that in storytelling, clarity is the prime virtue, though not the
 ONLY virtue.  Before we learn the lessons of Joyce and Woolf and Lawrence,
 we should learn the lessons of Asimov, who may be the supreme plain-style
 stylist of all time.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Me again.  Another famous writer from Greensboro was
 O. Henry who's famous for surprises.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Like me, always one step ahead of the law.

(18,Jake (moderator) And you throw in a surprise now and then, like the end of
 Speaker.  Not really a question.

(18,Greg) ?

(18,Orson Scott Card) Not very often.

(18,LONNIE SMITH)  ?

(18,Orson Scott Card) I didn't think of the end of SPEAKER as a surprise.  I
 thought it was the inevitable wrapup of all that had gone before.
 Did you mean the life-cycle of the piggies?  Or what?  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) I meant the "it was an honor" part, they were paying a deep
 compliment to the humans.  I don't want to spoil the book for people who
 haven't read it, tho.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Oh.  That kind of surprise I love -- it's one of the best
 things in fiction which seems to have one purpose, and then you discover that
 there was a completely different motive, and it revises the meaning of
 the whole rest of the story.
 I love it when other writers do it, and I enjoy doing it in my own fiction.
 But too many writers cheat -- they withhold information unfairly.  Jerking
 around the readers is easy.  Playing fair and still doing causal
 revisionism is hard.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg, ga.  Then Lonnie.

(18,Greg) I just came in, a bit late.
 My fiancee and I really enjoyed your "Secular Humanist Revival Meeting"
 at last year's WORLDCON and we were wondering,  DO YOU DO WEDDINGS???

(18,Orson Scott Card) Actully, I was supposed to do Somtow Sucharitkul's wedding
 -- I was going to give a secular humanist homily.  (For those who don't know,
 the secular humanist revival meeting is ACTUALLY a satire on the paranoia of
 Fundamentalists.  I am not a secular humanist -- I'm a committed Christian
 of the Mormon persuasion.  But the revival meeting IS lots of fun.)  ga

(18,Greg Goss) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg, follow-up?

(18,Greg) HAVE YOU DONE OTHER REVIVALS SINCE WC??

(18,Orson Scott Card) Lots.
 The WorldCon revival meeting was the biggest, but I've done it about ten
 times.  I'll be selling a tape of it, though, because I plan never to do it
 again.  Takes too much out of me.  The tape sells for $8.95.
 Gee, that sounds like a commercial, doesn't it?  Sorry.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Lonnie,  ga

(18,Greg) Pleas notify me (70206,172) e-mail...thanx

(18,LONNIE SMITH) Who is your favorite dead non-SF author?

(18,Orson Scott Card) My favorite DEAD non-SF author?
 That's hard.  I dearly love Mark Twain.  And CHarles Dickens.  But even more,
 Chaucer.  And Alexander Pope.  And --
 Well, there IS one standout,
 but it seems like such a cliche to say your favorite writer is William
 Shakespeare.  But he does mean a lot to me.
 I majored in theatre, I've often performed and read aloud the glorious
 language, and the stories live for me.  My ambition (modestly) is to
 accomplish as much in my time as he did in his.  Unfortunately, one never
 knows whether one has succeeded in such an ambition until one is long dead
 oneself.  ga

(18,LONNIE SMITH) yeah...!  Thanks.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Lonnie, follow-up?

(18,Greg Goss) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) Who's your favorite living SF author, apart from yourself (hehe)?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) I'm not my own favorite.  Again, though,I have to
 ask, favorite writer of what KIND of sf?  The short-fiction writer who
 most impresses and moves me nowadays is probably Jim Kelly.
 Sorry, I've lost my thread of thought.
 James Patrick Kelly for short fiction (but then look at Rebecca (Brown) Ore,
 or Lucius Shepard, or -- ALWAYS -- Brian Aldiss.
 Who do I think is the BEST living writing of sf?  It's a toss-up between
 Gene Wolfe and Brian Aldiss.
 Who do I most enjoy reading, for the sheer joy of it?
 I don't always like his work, but Mike Resnick's SANTIAGO was wonderful.
 What was the most important, BEST recent novel?  ARSLAN, by M.J. Engh. ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg Goss, your turn.  ga.

(18,Greg Goss) I haven't seen much recent short fiction from you.  Am I reading
 the wrong zines or do you prefer novel-length, or are there monetary reasons?

(18,Orson Scott Card) All of the above.
 For a few years, I wrote no short sf.  I was finally getting the hang of how
 to write novels, and all my ideas kept coming out as novels.  I finally
 realized, in fact, that most of my "short stories" before had really been
 novels, only I didn't know how to write them properly.
 Then about two years ago, at the first Sycamore Hill, I wrote
 the stories THE FRINGE and SALVAGE.  They were, I think, much better than
 any short stories I had written before, and since then I've written quite a
 few.  Except for THE FRINGE, which was in the October 1985 F&SF, and a story
 in NIGHT CRY later this year, the stories have/will all been/be in Asimov's.
 ga

(18,Greg Bradt) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg G, follow-up?  Then  Greg B.

(18,Greg Goss) Did you avoid duplicating scenes in expanding Ender?  I picked up that impression.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Duplicating scenes between the novelet and the novel, or within the novel?

(18,Greg Goss) from the novelet in the novel

(18,Orson Scott Card) Only one sentence from the novelet appears in the novel.

(18,cheryl peterson) ?

(18,Greg Goss) ga next

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg B, ga.  Then Cheryl.

(18,Greg Bradt) I have been trying to track down the first story of
 yours that I read some years ago in some periodical.  I believe
 it was called "Unaccompanied Sonata".  Do you have any idea where
 I might find it in a current collection?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Not really.  Maybe in one of the Best of Omni paperbacks.
 Somebody also put it in a best of the year that might still be in print.
 It was in my collection UNACCOMPANIED SONATA AND OTHER STORIES,
 but that's out of print.  I'll have a new collection out in a couple of
 years, and it will certainly be in that, but for now, I wouldn't know where.
 ga

(18,Greg Bradt) I hope to have it in hand next time I need a good cry. Thanx

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg B, foloow-up?

(18,Orson Scott Card) thank you.

(18,Greg Bradt) ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, ga.

(18,cheryl peterson) Do you think aspiring fictionists benefit much from
workshops?  Should I join one?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Workshops are exactly as good as their participants, in
 both directions.
 That is, if the people critiquing your stories don't know much, they won't
 help you much -- especially if they THINK they know a lot and give you bunches
 of silly advice (You need better characterization ... that's no help!).
 And in the other direction, if you don't know how to INTERPRET their comments,
 the workshop won't be much help.  However, you can't know until you've been
 in a workshop for a while, and when a workshop works, it's SO valuable that
 it's worth trying.  Just remember not to get trapped in the social elements
 of the workshop.  You can easily start liking people so much you keep going
 when in fact the workshop is doing you no good at all.  Then it just wastes
 your time -- and having people saying silly things about your stories can
 be debilitating.  So yes, try it out -- and after a few weeks if you can
 see it isn't going to work, get out at once.
 The best workshops are those with a pronounced ideology -- like Bruce
 Sterling's Turkey City workshop in Austin, or the Sycamore Hill workshop.  Not
 that anyone determined in advance what each of these would be "about," but
 they took on a powerful character, determined by the interplay of some fine
 writers.  The result is that the intellectual caliber of the whole conversation
 becomes quite high, and everybody leaves every session more intelligent than
 they were when they arrived.  Nothing stimulates a good writer like having
 his mind wake up.  So if you can find a workshop full of rigorous thinkers
 (not pretentious ones), you can have a splendid time, and everybody will
 be better for it.  Obviously this requires YOU to be a rigorous thinker
 as well -- you can't have a good workshop just by sitting and receiving.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, a second question? ga

(18,Greg Bradt) ?

(18,cheryl peterson) thanks. I have an unrelated? But I'll wait for the next go round. ga

(18,Jake (moderator) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg, ga.  Then me and Cheryl.

(18,Greg Bradt) Which Greg?

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg B

(18,Greg Goss) gb: ga

(18,Greg Bradt) Since this is a gaming forum, let mes ask... What do you think
 of the current "interactive fiction" school of computer games, I recently
 completer "HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy (*GREAT*) and am about
 to embark on the "Kobiyashi Alternative".  Have you tried any?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) I was a Zorker several years ago, and loved the game.
 The trouble is time -- it takes so darn long to play that I just can't embark
 on any interactive games.
 I love them in principle, especially the way INFOCOM has raised the standard
 for parsing, but I think they are still far from their best potential.  The
 puzzle aspect seems to dominate too much still.  I'm waiting for true
 interactive fiction -- in which your character's choices actually change the
 behavior of other CHARACTERS in the gameworld.  Right now, there is only
 one character per game -- the player's character.  ga

(18,Greg Bradt) Maybe voice recognition will help break the "time" barrier.
 We can only hope!  done

(18,LONNIE SMITH) what?

(18,Orson Scott Card) I'm not sold on voice recognition.  But then, I'm a fairly fast typist.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) My question...
 I know you have some definite ideas on what makes a game good and you've
 written articles about that topic.
 In general, what makes one  game better than another? ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) So much of that depends on personal taste -- a game I
 love may be deadly dull to you.  But what makes a game IN GENERAL better than
 others is the degree to which the player can join the gamewright in creating
 the world of the game -- in creating the story.  Games in which the world
 changes because of the player's acts -- whether a text game or a video game --
 are always more interesting for MULTIPLE play.  Still, the fascination of
 mastering a new skill in a fast-action videogame has its own attraction.  So
 I don't denigrate that aspect of the game design.  And good artwork in
 videogames is important.  But what makes a game playable over and over is the
 ability of the player to transform the game during play -- it makes the player
 feel like he is playing WITH the gamewright rather than exclusively against
 him, and it keeps the interest level high.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Is there one game that's your favorite?  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) He seems to have disappeared.

Job   User ID   Nod Ch Tlk Handle
--- ----------- --- -- --- ------------
 12 76703,3051  QAM 18     Jake (moderator
 74 70206,172   DEQ 18     Greg Bradt
 91 76120,2424  ELP 18     david craig
113 70007,2406  MIA 18     cheryl peterson
116 76703,4037  SEA 18     Buffer Betty
172 73177,3065  VCR 18     Greg Goss
182 71777,2556  CAN 18     LONNIE SMITH
183 76703,4244  DLQ 18     steve

(18,Jake (moderator) Right now, Scott is feverishly dialing, trying to get
 back here.

(18,cheryl peterson) no, scott's computeris feverishly dialing... (grin)

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, you're next.

(18,Greg Goss) ? for moderator.

(18,Jake (moderator) But you might want to wait for OSC.   Gary G,  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) Jake, I think I'll wait. As I said, I'm very patient.
 (grin)  ga

(18,Greg Goss) Why is a top SF author being COed on a CBM forum, instead of
 SCI29 or whatever?

(18,Jake (moderator) Because we asked him first.
 Actually, he and I live in the same city.  And I asked if he wanted to be
 a guest and he said yes.  And he's written about Commodore before.

(18,Greg Goss) Thanks.  ga

(18,LONNIE SMITH) ?

(18,cheryl peterson) Betty, have you been losing lines?

(18,Buffer Betty) Cheryl, I certainly have.  You too?  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) Glad to know it's not just me.
 Yes, every now and then I lose a line in scott's reply. less since he
 mentioned he was having trouble with line length

(18,Greg Goss) When the CO gets noisy, I think that OSC types past the 120char
 limit.

(18,cheryl peterson) it's 120 characters now?

Job   User ID   Nod Ch Tlk Handle
--- ----------- --- -- --- ------------
 12 76703,3051  QAM 18     Jake (moderator
 74 70206,172   DEQ 18     Greg Bradt
 91 76120,2424  ELP 18     david craig
113 70007,2406  MIA 18     cheryl peterson
116 76703,4037  SEA 18     Buffer Betty
121 70007,2376  SLC 18     Orson Scott Card
172 73177,3065  VCR 18     Greg Goss
182 71777,2556  CAN 18     LONNIE SMITH
183 76703,4244  DLQ 18     steve

(18,Orson Scott Card) I'm back.  I was disconnected.

(18,Jake (moderator) Rehi Scott.

(18,Buffer Betty) There he is.

(18,cheryl peterson) uhm oh, line noise.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Line noise, I think -- and the line noise is continuing.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Where were we?

(18,Jake (moderator) We were just talking about that.  Cheryl is next.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Let's get back in order and remind me, please, what in
 the WORLD we were talking about.

(18,cheryl peterson) Jake had just asked what your favorite game is.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Boulder Dash, by miles.  Though the closest to it is
 Lode Runner.  In both of which, of course, you manipulate the game world!
 I just bought BALANCE OF POWER, however, and that may well take over,
 since I grew up on RISK and knowing Chris Crawford, BOP is bound to be
 brilliant.  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) Are you through writing programs and articles about ?
 computers?

(18,Orson Scott Card) Probably, alas.  Not by choice, really -- I still love
 computers.  I still love programming.  But I just can't justify the time
 when the business pays so badly for so much work.
 The problem with writing about programs is that you have to write programs
 that work.  Debugging a program takes a lot more time and effort than
 debugging a novel.  Though when the PROGRAM RUNS, you know that there are
 no more fatal bugs; while with the novel, you have to wait for the critics
 to tell you if there were bugs or not!  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) (gosh I hate this Amiga keyboard.)

(18,Orson Scott Card) Line noise, sorry.  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) Tell me about it Scott (megagrin) wish I could quit.  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) What?

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) +++ATH
(18,Orson Scott Card) {_+++ATH
(18,Orson Scott Card) Folks, the line noise is killing me.

(18,cheryl peterson) Has anyone approached you about making Ender's Game! into a computer game?

(18,Orson Scott Card) I have to sign off and try again.  Give me two minutes.
(18,Orson Scott Card) +++ATH

(18,Buffer Betty) !

(18,Orson Scott Card) +++ATH

(18,cheryl peterson) (waiting for scott)

(18,Jake (moderator) Betty: isn't there a way to stop the noise?

(18,cheryl peterson) (coming from a good Mormon, that is frustration.)

(18,Buffer Betty) I was going to suggest to Scott that he enter  PRO  and
 at the  OK  prompt enter    TER NIM ON   which will filter out a lot of those
 characters.

(18,Jake (moderator) He's gone.  Back in a minute, I guess.

(18,Buffer Betty) The System is very slow right now.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Back now.  And no noise.

(18,Buffer Betty) Great.

(18,cheryl peterson) Is he signed on through Telenet? That's pretty common on telenet lines

(18,Orson Scott Card) Sorry to inconvenience you, but I just couldn't stand the
 weird stuff.  The question was?  A game version of  Ender's Game?
 I think it's a good idea (and never mind the laser games being played
 in malls across America), but nobody's mentioned it.  I mean, if ever
 a novel was built around gaming, that one was!  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) !

(18,cheryl peterson) !

(18,Greg Bradt) !

(18,Jake (moderator) Comment.  The goal would be to destroy the bee-people
 but when you succeed, you have to feel guilty.

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg B, ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) RIGHT ON!

(18,Orson Scott Card) No, it's the battle room that's playable.
 There is no such thing as a computer that could play the GIANT'S DRINK.  ga

(18,Buffer Betty) !

(18,Greg Bradt) I'll mention it, since I have been an avid PHOTON player,
 have you tried it?  Or at least seen it? Comments? ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Is that the "live" game where you rent a suit and a laser?

(18,Greg Bradt) Yes

(18,Orson Scott Card) It sounds interesting, but I've never played it.  (And I
 just can't help but wonder if the developers of the game read the novelet
 ENDER'S GAME?)  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, ga.  Then Betty.

(18,cheryl peterson) If I can arrange for one of the software companies to do
 it, can I collect a finders fee. (grin)

(18,Orson Scott Card) Yes.  $30.  Remind me.  ga  Go to dinner on me.

(18,cheryl peterson) Scott, as long as it's dinner with you.

(18,Jake (moderator) Betty, ga

(18,Buffer Betty) Scott, speaking of a game about "Ender's Game,"
 I would much rather see a movie that combined "Ender's Game" and
 "Speaker Of The Dead".   Perhaps someday it will be.  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Wow.  What a long movie that would be!  Fact is, both
 novels are so long that a movie version of EITHER would have to leave out a
 lot of stuff.
 ENDER was under option for a year, but the company that optioned it lost
 its shirt on ENEMY MINE, and didn't pick up the option.
 Just as well, in fact, since they wanted to make Ender a libidinous 16-year-old
 with a love interest.
 Not exactly what I had in mind.  I mean, the story only works if Ender is
 innocent -- and there's no such thing as a truly innocent 16-year-old male
 human.  ga

(18,Greg Bradt) !

(18,cheryl peterson) (gross)

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg B, ga

(18,Greg Bradt) Darn shame about the movie company, I thought that Enemy Mine
 was a noble, and very uplifting effort.  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Yes, but again the movie company damaged.  What you LIKED
 about the movie came from the story Longyear wrote.  But the stupid action
 ending was tacked on.  They began a thoughtful human movie, tossed in stupid
 things straight out of Star Wars (or worse) like the burping alien creature,
 and then tried to END it as an action adventure flick.  These guys had
 NO integrity.  They didn't understand what makes a story work, and so they
 killed their movie before it had a chance.  Hollywood.  ga

(18,Greg Bradt) I read the story, and AGREE. done

(18,Jake (moderator) 20 minutes left.  Any more questions?

(18,Greg Bradt) ? one last

(18,LONNIE SMITH) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) GB, ga.  Then Lonnie.

(18,cheryl peterson) ?

(18,Greg Bradt) Do you do much conversing on any of the competetors of CIS?
 I know that your presence would be greatly enjoyed and appreciated on out
 F&SF Forum here. How about dropping in?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) I have two memberships in CIS, dating from a long time
 ago, but I keep getting billed $5 for each of them for nothing at all.  I'm
 cancelling, I'm afraid.
 Any company that bills me for the privilege of being billed is too crazy
 for words.  ga  I do hang out at Delphi, however.

(18,cheryl paterson) !

(18,Greg Bradt) News to me! COMPLAIN!!!

(18,Jake (moderator) Lonnie, ga

(18,LONNIE SMITH) At a con panel, EG was compared to Cuckoos Egg but said
 that EG trivialized the horrors of war by making the game the metaphor.
 Agree/disagree?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) There ARE no "horrors" of "clean" space war --the corpses
 all get vaporized.  So when you're talking about a different kind of war, you
 don't write about it the same old way, do you?
 Actually, I haven't read CUCKOO'S EGG and so can't compare.
 Also, I hardly think war was "trivialized" in Ender's Game.  It was merely
 focused in the perceptions of one person.
 I'd also like to know, if you remember, who MADE the comment.  Remember that
 some folks on panels have axes to grind.  ga

(18,LONNIE SMITH) Scott, I "think" J. Lichtenberg, other authors on the panel.
 The panel on Cherryh.  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Ah.  Comment reserved.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, ga

(18,cheryl peterson) I was going to ask scott why he doesn't stop in the sf&f
 forum, but someone beat me to it. Scott, there is a discussion going on
 between Joel Rosenberg and John Stith that would probably interst you.  It
 would be great to see your comments. Series writing vs single novels, etc.  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Both are interesting writers, aren't they?  Stith
 especially excites me -- I see real potential for one of the great writers of
 sf in that man.
 He has a maturity, both in his writing and in his characters, that very
 much appeals to me.  His characters are connected to the community they
 live in, and to each other, instead of the perpetual loners that have long
 populated sf.
 If you haven't read Stith, do!  (But only if you've been good.  Reading
 Stith is a reward for good behavior.)  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) !

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, ga again.

(18,cheryl peterson) (And to think John and I spent most of WorldCon together.
 I'll have to be very good for an awful long time.)
 I think his writing is terrific too. (grin)  ga

Job   User ID   Nod Ch Tlk Handle
--- ----------- --- -- --- ------------
 12 76703,3051  QAM 18     Jake (moderator
 74 70206,172   DEQ 18     Greg Bradt
 91 76120,2424  ELP 18     david craig
 97 71426,1053  NYL 18     Jester
113 70007,2406  MIA 18     cheryl peterson
116 76703,4037  SEA 18     Buffer Betty
146 70007,2376  SLC 18     Orson Scott Card
172 73177,3065  VCR 18     Greg Goss
182 71777,2556  CAN 18     LONNIE SMITH
183 76703,4244  DLQ 18     steve

(18,Jake (moderator) Any more questions?

(18,Jake (moderator) I have one.  Your books have strong characters or
 characterization, rather.  Do you begin a story with the characters
 and fill in the plot later? ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) I begin with events.  Then I create the characters who
 could have taken part in those events, and discover their motivations.  That
 leads to further events.  All of this, however, takes place during the
 outlining stage.
 When I'm writing, the major characters are pretty well set in my mind, as
 are the major events, though many minor characters and events take shape
 during the writing process.  It's kind of you to say the characterization is
 strong; I don't do characterization in the traditional ways, very much --
 I'm playing with characterization the way an actor does it rather than
 by description or pure event.  Motivation is the key for me, and attitude.
 So it's nice to know that the characters feel real to you.  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) You had an idea once for a "world-building book," want
 to say anything about that?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Gosh, I don't remember that very clearly.  I think that if
 I were to write it now, I'd talk about ways to build worlds OUTSIDE science
 fiction -- ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, ga

(18,cheryl peterson) Early in your career you wrote a play, (if I remember
 right?)  I was curious about the name of it and where it was done. ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) I began as a playwright, Cheryl.  I wrote about 30 plays,
 and about 20 of them were produced at one place or another.  All in Utah,
 however.  Which one did you have in mind?  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) I hate to admit that I know no names. I don't suppose
 you had anything to do with Saturday's warrior?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Not on your life.  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Last 5 minutes.  Any last questions?

(18,cheryl peterson) !

(18,Jake (moderator) Cheryl, ga.

(18,cheryl peterson) if you'd like to see the conversation between joel and
 john, it's in section 9 of the board.  ga so you don't have to read the whole
 thing.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Thanks.  ga

(18,Greg Bradt) ?

(18,Jake (moderator) Greg B, ga

(18,Greg Bradt) How can I find out how to get a copy of your tape of the
 Secular Humanist Revival Meeting?  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) Send $8.95 to Revival Meeting,
 PO Box 18104, Greensboro, NC  274 something.
 Can't remember the zip.
 Or you can send it to my home address, 546 Lindley Rd., Greensboro NC 27410

(18,Greg Bradt) I'll look it up, Thanx.

9:00:02 PM PST Saturday, February 28, 1987

(18,Buffer Betty) !

(18,Jake (moderator) Betty, ga

(18,Sysop/Betty) Scott, I want to say two things.
 First, I hope you will forgive me for sitting on my copy of the "Speaker
 For The Dead" so that I could pay attention here and not read.
 Second, thank you very much for being our guest tonight.  It has been
 wonderful and I wish you great success in whatever you choose to do.
 Thank you.  ga

(18,Greg Bradt) Much thanks, Scott.  Live Long & Prosper.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Thanks.  It was my pleasure to be on.
 (And sorry about line noise and occasional confusion and grumpiness.)  ga

(18,Jake (moderator) Thus we end the CO.

(18,Orson Scott Card) Tchau, gente.

(18,Jake (moderator) Scott, if you'd like to stick around for a few minutes
 we can continue informally.  No rules.  No ?s and !s.  ga

(18,Orson Scott Card) I wish I could, Jake, but I have to run.  ga

(18,cheryl peterson) take care scott.

(18,Jake (moderator) OK.  Thanks for being here.

(18,Orson Scott Card) I'm not on vacation here in Utah, and I have to keep
 working.  Thanks, though.

(18,LONNIE SMITH) can't wait for ender's Children.  Good night!

(18,Orson Scott Card) Gnight All!

(18,Jake (moderator) Night Scott.

(18,cheryl peterson) chow scott

(18,Sysop/Betty) Knight, Scott.  Take care.

Job   User ID   Nod Ch Tlk Handle
--- ----------- --- -- --- ------------
 12 76703,3051  QAM 18     Jake (moderator
 26 76703,4244  DLQ 18     steve
 74 70206,172   DEQ 18     Greg Bradt
113 70007,2406  MIA 18     cheryl peterson
116 76703,4037  SEA 18     Sysop/Betty
172 73177,3065  VCR 18     Greg Goss
182 71777,2556  CAN 18     LONNIE SMITH

(18,Greg Bradt) Jake, Will this get in your Download Library?

(18,Jake) I guess it's done.  Yes.  Should be in DL1.  Give us a day or two.

(18,steve) Good CO, Jake.

(18,Sysop/Betty) Jake, thank you very much for being Moderator while on yout
 vacation.  Excellent job.

(18,cheryl peterson) thanks betty and jake

(18,Greg Bradt) You might consider passing a copy, or at least notice that it
 exists to the F&SF SIG Sysop

(18,Sysop/Betty) Greg, it will be noted in our  CBMART  Short Bulletin and
 be available in Data Library 1.

(18,cheryl peterson) chow all

(18,Jake) ciaou cheryl

(18,Sysop/Betty) Knight, Cheryl.

(18,LONNIE SMITH) g'nite all.

(18,Jake) Night Lonnie

(18,Sysop/Betty) Knight, Lonnie.

9:08:06 PM PST Saturday, February 28, 1987


And so ended our Formal CBMART COnference with Orson Scott Card, winner of
the 1986 Science Fiction "Nebula" and "Hugo" Awards for his novel "Ender's
Game."  And now there is a sequel entitled "Speaker For The Dead."

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02/28/87  CBMART Forum
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